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After years of helping brands and artists connect with audiences from inside one of the world’s largest streaming platforms, Justin “Jay” Norman is betting on a different model for how companies engage with culture.

At the center of it is the simple idea that Black consumers should not be treated like a separate audience.

Norman, Spotify’s former global director of creative strategy and global head of music marketing, left the company this summer to lead Verse + Hook full-time. The Detroit-based creative strategy, branding and marketing consultancy, which he co-founded, announced the move in July.

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